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Native Release???

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Native Release???

Postby racfish » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:02 am

Im always puzzeled by the rules of releasing native steel.If we cant keep Natives in our local waters why do we need to conserve them so much.They go up spawn ,go back out,come back re-mate and so on. Why perpetuate that part of the species. Do we release so we can say to ourselves how diciplined we are? Kinda like the Cowlitz which is probably 90 % hatchery fish. That river always kicks out hatchery fish. The native run on the Cowlitz is probably very small. Yet it is probably the best river around. Why not do this to all rivers. Do we save our natives for the nets only? It seems this way. Its just puzzeling to me why we are so worried about the native runs.
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Re: Native Release???

Postby Bodofish » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:07 am

Ralph, Ralph, Ralph, always with the asking questions and expecting the powers that be to take a logical approach. [-X ](*,) [biggrin]
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Re: Native Release???

Postby racfish » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:31 am

Honestly though . What good is saving the run just to be caught up in native nets anyways?. It dosent seem fair. But then we do live in Wa state so fairness isnt really a viable option.
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Re: Native Release???

Postby Bodofish » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:51 am

It's a state of mind! Someone elses.......... [biggrin]
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Re: Native Release???

Postby bassplayer17 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:52 pm

racfish wrote:Honestly though . What good is saving the run just to be caught up in native nets anyways?. It dosent seem fair. But then we do live in Wa state so fairness isnt really a viable option.

Yes the less for more state ](*,) =;.... I don't mind releasing but just let me fish for them don't shut it down [thumbdn]
Nothing makes a fish bigger than almost being caught....
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Re: Native Release???

Postby fishenfreak » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:57 pm

all the biologists and environmentalists feel it is important to preserve the few Wild Fish we have left in our waters.
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Re: Native Release???

Postby bigskyx » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:26 pm

Is this a wind up? You can't be serious?? You think Steelhead exist solely for your fishing pleasure? No interest in having rivers & fish healthy the way they were before we showed up & selfishly trashed the ecosystem?? Hatcheries supply fish for us to catch but the fish that they produce have been proven to be inferior and a negative effect on the system. Please do some research on the subject.
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Re: Native Release???

Postby racfish » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:01 pm

Im just asking the question. It kinda reminds me of shutting down the forestry business losing 2000 jobs to save a couple spotted owls. To me it wasnt worth it. Id rather had seen those folks work then lose jobs. The native steelhead were wiped out of the Cedar and Sammamiosh system. Not due to man but nature did it on its own. (sealions)
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Re: Native Release???

Postby bigskyx » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:19 pm

It's really important that you educate yourself on these issues before taking a position. Google is your friend. This is an old study but I see no mention of sealions. And the state of this watershed is anything but natural.

http://www.pugetsoundnearshore.org/supp ... _FINAL.pdf

"the most important cause of physical change to the watershed has been
the expansion of urban and suburban development. In particular, this has altered the
hydrology of the watershed; both through changes in land cover and through increased water
withdrawals. Changes in land cover due to urbanization have been extensively shown to
relate to degradations in salmon habitat, mostly due to changes in flows but also because of
degraded riparian areas."
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Re: Native Release???

Postby fishenfreak » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:33 pm

Yea supporting the few native and wild fish we have left is important. we can plant as many fish as we want but once the wild fish that have been wild for thousands of years are gone, theres no bringing them back, although i do agree that on rivers where the nates are already gone... we should plant mass hatchery fish instead of saying theres 2 returning pairs a year so were gonna close it forever.

It would be like saying, why spend all that money to save the remaining wild panda bears when we have 100 in captivity. Its not the same
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Re: Native Release???

Postby racfish » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:36 am

You know what Bigsyxx. I dont always believe everything I read. When the Govt plays a part you can be guarateed there are shinanigans afoot.Just like with the Boldt decision years ago. Judge Boldt was bought out by Big chief Satiacum which Im sure played a major part in his decision.I do understand the importance of wild stock. Unfortunately the biologists do what they are told. They say what they are told. 6 years ago the spring Chinook were endangered. Out of the blue the past years have been excellent recovery. Now we face another problem Sealions wiping out the springers.If humans really want to save the species alot more needs to be done to make this happen. But do you think the Govt will change policy with the BPA to take down all dams on the rivers, Will the govt stop big housing developments on the rivers when they are creating jobs. Sorry Mr florida take your head out of the sand and see what happens with sealions and nets. Instead of sitting in sunny Florida with the beaurocrats thayt dont know whats happening on the west coast.
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Re: Native Release???

Postby Bodofish » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:03 am

Thanks for that Ralph!!!! Gill nets, Sea Lions and to some extent encroachment on spawning beds. The Steelhead distruction is listed in order. Sport fishermen are somewhere between Sea Lions and encroacment. Unfortunately our myopic State Govt. thinks they can fix the problem by putting the regulatory screw to the sport fishermen. It's never going to work until we put back more fish than we take out. A sterling example is the Cowlitz. Unfortunately they can do nothing or so it's believed about tribal gill netting since the Boldt decision and to a slightly lesser extent the Sea Lion problem so they don't even try. Sad but true. Please guys, it was a contracted Eco biological firm that told the State what it wanted to hear. Shut down hatcheries to increase the size of the salmon and steelhead runs. I'm not really sure what the rest of you think but I'm pretty sure that's the biggest load horse %&#* I've heared in a long time. Ltes see who wins on that one..... Oh yeah, the State legislaters because it puts more money on their plates for pet projects.

Rant off.... Ralph, keep asking questions and p1$$ing them off.
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Re: Native Release???

Postby racfish » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:50 am

Im really not trying to P.O anyone in particular off. Im starting a topic and trying to get feedback. I know that the presence of fish in the rivers is very important to our Ecosystem. Dead fish ie salmon add nutrients to the water. The eagles the bear, all get a piece of this action. My gripe is why is it the Sportspeople that get the raw end of it all. We the sportspeople buy licences and punchcards hoping to inflate the numbers of fish we get but it seems just like in society that the taxpayers get the least. The non taxpayers get to reap the harvest anyway they feel like it with little or no giving into the pot. The tribes just recently put into the system where for years they got all freebies cuz they are the indegenous people. To me those days are or should be over. My family werent even in country during those days but because of my skin color I'm left out. If people get P.Oed by my rants ? I dont care. Want a piece of me? get in line. the line starts in Alabama and stretches to Seattle. LOL....
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Re: Native Release???

Postby G-Man » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:27 am

Eventually the fish will lose this battle. As the returns dwindle, sports fishermen will eventually stop spending money to chase ghost fish and once that happens, the money the State collects from the licenses fees and tax revenue will be miniscule compared to what it is now. With no money and no fish the State can use that as an excuse to fill\log\mine\alter\dam and otherwise destroy the natural habitat required for healthy rivers, totally killing any chance that the fish can make it back on their own. One can place blame squarely on the shoulders of a politician's desire to increase their voter base at all costs. What is it with our obsession with growth? It doesn't take a high school degree to see that the resources we have are not limitless. At sometime, hopefully in the near future, a generation of humans will understand this and limit themselves to a sustainable population. Unfortunately I don't see our current crop of leaders exhibiting the ability to comprehend this simple idea. Until then, rant as much as possible and be sure to talk to the kids while they are still receptive to reason, our current generation is beyond hope.
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Re: Native Release???

Postby bigskyx » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:23 pm

Not pissed off, astounded! Really thought you were kidding. When people are willing to accept rhetoric over fact, ](*,) There's not much hope.

"Mr Florida" ??
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Re: Native Release???

Postby racfish » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:35 pm

If youre talking fact as in what Govt reports say. So you think the sealions have no harmful effects on fishing and you dont think Tribal nets do damage. Its not rhetoric ,its a fact.Are you one of those that believe everything the govt says?
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Re: Native Release???

Postby G-Man » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:06 pm

As I previously stated, talk to and educate the kids, our current generation is too set in their ways to change even though the proof is staring them in the face.
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Re: Native Release???

Postby bigskyx » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:42 pm

racfish wrote: The native steelhead were wiped out of the Cedar and Sammamiosh system. Not due to man but nature did it on its own. (sealions)



racfish wrote:So you think the sealions have no harmful effects on fishing


You can't see the difference here? I sincerely hope that the adults here will truly educate themselves before passing on "knowledge" to their children.
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Re: Native Release???

Postby racfish » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:47 pm

Hmmmmmmmmmm !!! Maybe Im a lil slow but Im not following your comments. Everytime I mention Sealions you make some off the wall statement. Im not understanding what youre getting at
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Re: Native Release???

Postby G-Man » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:27 pm

bigskyx wrote:
racfish wrote: The native steelhead were wiped out of the Cedar and Sammamiosh system. Not due to man but nature did it on its own. (sealions)



racfish wrote:So you think the sealions have no harmful effects on fishing


You can't see the difference here? I sincerely hope that the adults here will truly educate themselves before passing on "knowledge" to their children.


Come on man, do you seriously think that we are going to get the locks removed in Ballard? It serves a fair purpose and does not have much of an impact on fish passage. It is far easier to pop a few sea lions, who are not indigenous to the Sound, to solve the problem. Man that would have been simple. For the paltry price of a box of rifle shells, we could have saved a run of native steelhead.
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